Vinay Patankar is the co-founder & CEO of Process Street. Process Street is the simplest way to manage your teams recurring processes and workflows. Process Street makes it easily set up new clients, onboard employees and manage content publishing with Process Street.Process Street is a venture backed SaaS company and AngelPad alum with numerous fortune 500 clients. Salesforce, AirBnB, Yale, GAP and 1000's of other companies rely on Process Street to manage and automate repetitive work in their teams.Vinay was the youngest certified Cisco engineer in Australia at age 16, and is well-versed in IT, Finance, Startup Investment and Software Recruitment. Process Street is his fourth internet company.Ben & Vinay dive into no-code for enterprise and B2B customers, and how process & automation tools are changing the way we do business on scale. Vinay also blogs at Abstract Living about Startups, how to build a blog, Nomadic travel and all things marketing.

Vinay - Process St- Spotlight Podcast-MP3 for Audio Podcasti...

Sun, 4/26 5:32PM • 35:33


process, products, workflow, run, people, zapier, build, organization, code, companies, api, salesforce, category, startups, system, customers, automate, big, checklist, templates


Vinay - Process St, Ben Tossell

Ben Tossell  00:00

Vinay - Process St  00:23

Again, excited to be here.

Ben Tossell  00:25

Yeah, look to hear a bit about your, your background and what and what process three is if you could just tell us a little bit about that.

Vinay - Process St  00:35

Sure. My background I'm originally from Australia. I'm going to keep it really short but kind of like Kwazii business recruitment tech background, kind of started a few different companies and ecommerce store, a failed startup marketing company and then process street so been running companies for about 10 11 years now. All my companies are fully distributed, actually, which is interesting. I've never actually so the first company I started in 2009 was a fully distributed company. It was like right at the beginning of Shopify, when there were like 20 people or something.

Ben Tossell  01:16

And since then

Vinay - Process St  01:19

all my companies have been distributed. So I guess that's interesting. And then process treat, also fully distributed organization where a no code workflow builder, I guess the area of that where we specialize in is like human centric workflows. So if there if there doesn't need to be a human in the process, then it's probably not the right use case for pasta street so but if there is a human and it's a human needs to approve something needs to speak to another human like sales or recruitment in some way. needs to do anything in the physical world. Check a contract, approve a discount, review a podcast, like do anything with it like needs to be a human involved, then we're a great platform for managing that. And then we partner with a lot of the blackbox API workflow products like Zapier and whatnot to pull and push data out of your other SAS products.

Ben Tossell  02:17

Awesome. So when did vs Street, start them? When did you start? So you recently raised a series A, is that right?

Vinay - Process St  02:25

Yep. So you can say that we really officially started around the time that we went through Angel pad, it was a bit of we had a bit of a kind of side side project going and we actually first built the original prototype as an internal tool for my marketing company. But we did Angel pad and we finished that in 2015. So that was when we really spun it out as a as a full time kind of product and business.

Ben Tossell  02:52

Awesome. And then how big is the team now and now we're about 45 people. Awesome. And he said, fully distributed. is fully distributed? is this? Yeah. Is it the biggest team you've had fully distributed? Yes. Yes. What? Where? Have you, like, always wonder how people learn to do that? Is it just like by just doing things on the way? See?

Vinay - Process St  03:20

Yeah, I mean, it was a lot of trial and error, right. Like, there wasn't, like I said, I've been doing it now for 11 years. So there was a lot of trial and error. Also, like the technology landscape has changed a lot along the way to like when I started it was Skype and maybe Google Sheets and maybe you have like the first version of Asana that was like, all that great product. And then, you know, there's like the products kind of kind of at your disposal. So even the way that I ran the comm, you know, my company back then is very different to the way that

Ben Tossell  03:57

I run the company now. Yeah, I mean, they spoilt for choice now with all the all in all the tools out there, right? view and you said that process street is was built out as an internal tool, what was the what was the pain you had that you were then basically trying to solve them?

Vinay - Process St  04:17

So so one was? Well, I guess like there's kind of two ways that I can explain it. One is like the user particular use case or a particular process that we're working on. The other is kind of like what was lacking in the other products. That meant that I couldn't solve that use case, right? Because the use case itself was basically like running. online advertising campaigns, like it wasn't a very complex, complex use case, in that, like, we were launching 30 different ad variations each day on different networks. And we just needed to track them carefully, right? And make sure that they were getting done accurately and knowing who and there was a team of people doing it knowing who was doing what, who's had what load and was that load being done. and whatnot managing all that kind of remotely. That was a use case. But I guess the real problem that I had because what I was using to run it was mostly Google Sheets and Skype, right? That was kind of like my main staff back then.

Ben Tossell  05:13


Vinay - Process St  05:16

the main issue was that Google Sheets has way too much flexibility. And this translates to a lot of the other project management products as well, in that, and that's kind of a key difference between like a BPM tool, business process management platform, and a project manager platform is kind of like a BPM tool, you design an app, and you create a set of rails, and then like, you have to stay on those rails. Whereas like a kind of project management system, and you kind of have this kind of blank space portal where you could do a lot of stuff with it, right? You know, people can kind of come in and customize it. So in workflow you normally have like an app owner, right, like someone who owns the app and builds the app and then everyone else, kind of runs it underneath, right? And they just kind of executed and they don't really have the ability to adjust how that app works, right? They just kind of have to follow the instructions that were laid out for them. Yeah. And so that was what I needed was I needed to define this is exactly how the Facebook ads system works. And this is exactly how like this, you know, mobile ad network works. And exactly, you need to follow those steps. And I don't want you to change the, you know, the column starting area wasn't here, I don't money to put like to type a text into like a number column. And I didn't want you to like change the the style and the font of this thing. And I didn't want you to rearrange the columns. I just wanted to go through and do this. And every morning I would come in and I would find that like our system was broken, because like the team would come in and just change everything all the time. And I'm like, why isn't there just a Why isn't there something I could just deploy that they have to follow? Exactly. That does Give them any of the options to, doesn't give them the options to make decisions, right, like so it's just the they have to kind of follow the decisions that someone else has made for them. Right?

Ben Tossell  07:12

And that's, that's

Vinay - Process St  07:14

what prostrate is, right? It's the ability to kind of encode in your organizational knowledge that you know, works well already, right? Like, because either you've tested it lots of different times, and you figured out this is the more efficient, more effective way to do something. So when a new person comes in, you don't want them going and kind of running all those tests, again, on least less efficient ways of doing something. Or there's all sorts of other reasons like there's regulatory reasons as compliance reasons, the safety reasons why something needs to be done in a particular way. And there shouldn't be shouldn't be room for people to experiment and how that is done right. Like you're not like, you know, for example, we help run like the Hinkley nuclear power plant, right like people you don't want people like experimenting And like how to run a process right like in a power plant. So there are lots of scenarios where having that enforcement and being a bit define exactly how something is done is useful and there's different types of use cases and teams and and businesses that align to different types of products. Right. So startups, for example, young startups are not really great customers for us because they don't have structured defined processes and in their in their in a very creative kind of like mode where they're trying to discover and design and then not trying to create like rigidness in their kind of like process because they're trying to they're trying to foster innovation, right. Yeah. Which is kind of the opposite of a power plant and they'd be an insurance company or something or something like that. But then even when a startup gets to a certain scale, like sales forces, a big customer of ours and stuff like then they they need to have processes, right? If you've got a 50 person sales team or a 30 person support team, then you need to start to build processes to manage that team. Yeah, yeah.

Ben Tossell  09:09

This is like, this is quite different to what the traditional traditional, I say, in in inverted commas, like no code stuff, where it's like, here's a bunch of tools, you can patch together and do almost anything. Whereas yours is like you can do almost anything but as, like a structured process of how that works.

Vinay - Process St  09:34

Right? Well, so when you're when you're kind of thinking about the no code environment, I don't think there's any no code tools that can do anything. Like they all aligned to certain types of use cases, right. So you know, obviously, you've got your website builders, they're lying to customer and user facing websites, right. You've got air table which is aligned to Like database or system of record related use cases, right? You've got like Zapier or tre, which are like ETL, kind of like blackbox API use cases. And if you kind of translate that into like normal code, you've got all these different types of, and then like process tree, which is like human centric, or the UI kind of like layer where there's like humans interfacing with it and running workflows. So if you think about it, like if you translate this is kind of one way that I like to think about is translating it into just code, right? So there are different software languages or development products that are optimized for different types of like, high code or code use cases, right? So like Python, or Scala might be useful technologies for doing high volume ETL like processes. Whereas like react might be a good UI language, which is kind of like where process treat bytes in the stack. And then like Postgres, or my SQL might be kind of like a good database type technology, which is kind of the layer that an air table or Google Sheets kind of sits, right. So you're breaking up all these different technologies, they can kind of be used on their own for their own particular use cases. Like if you just wanted a pure API server that just move some data from one place to another, maybe ran some checks and some logs or something, then you could maybe run like Python or Scala on like a server like that. But if you wanted to build a fully functioning app that had a UI and API's and a database that you probably plug those three together, like you might use a react and a Python and and Postgres right to build like a fully functioning, fully functioning product. Yeah. And actually, we see a lot of customers especially kind of like startup, SME customers build full stack, no code, like systems, right? So we see like internally we see like process street Zapier air table for building like internal tools for organizations, right? You might see like, web flows Zapier air table for like customer facing products, right? So then you can start to like kind of patch together the different products in a similar way that you would patch together code technologies to build like a full stack, but you're kind of patching together the novo products, depending on the use case that you're kind of optimizing for, right?

Ben Tossell  12:37

Yeah, I mean, that's exactly what we do make patties. I'm looking at a web flow design and now we have everything linked with Zapier goes through into air table does a bunch checks. For me remember stuff to process our payment pieces. We have like these things that we stick together on things and things break and we check them and fix All the time. But yeah, that's the sort of stuff that we're doing.

Vinay - Process St  13:02

So that's kind of like a external membership portal dealing with customers. So like an internal is like you've got a table as your employee directory. And then you've got like process street like holiday approval or like new employee onboarding or like promotion or like location transfer, you got all these like processes that are kind of pumping out. And like running off Zapier and air table as like the system of record and then like, internal like processes that are running that way? Yeah. So you're kind of building these like, it's it's no code development for like inside the organization for for internal operations, right. This is kind of customer facing stuff.

Ben Tossell  13:44

Yeah, that makes Yeah, that makes sense to me thinking about in terms of like voting the organization and yeah, I can see why maybe early stage startups on your, on your key customers because maybe you were an early stage startup and

Vinay - Process St  13:58

likes so much change. Basically, you're

Ben Tossell  14:02

trying to figure out you're trying to figure out your processes, you want to get to that point, right? But you just still, you're still in that like Limbo of figuring it all out. I suppose

Vinay - Process St  14:10

that's a win, like an individual team hits like 10 to 20 people. So when you've got one team in your organization that's like, starting to get to like 10 or 20. So your support team or your sales team is normally like, or maybe engineering, like where startups kind of hit that threshold at some point, then that starts to become like, interesting to us. But you needed an individual team that's like a certain scale for it to see the value in.

Ben Tossell  14:35

Oh, how do you think about? I mean, could you mentioned in your intro that like, it's a no code workflow builder? Do you see? Like the customers you talk to and these other companies that already established have these teams and stuff? They talk about it in a no code way? Because I often have conversations Yeah, taking a

Vinay - Process St  14:56

test about no code no knows what it is none of our customers It isn't so like startups in Silicon Valley, right? Or maybe like some other type of internet company like an internet marketing company or design agency or something maybe some of them might might know. But even like Salesforce or something is not talking. No Go now. Right? Like even enterprise tech is not.

Ben Tossell  15:22

So how would you argue like, how do you talk to them about what it is you do? By saying, without writing code? Do you have it? Or do you not even have to touch on that you just,

Vinay - Process St  15:34

well, yeah, well, we don't normally even like mention that at all right? Like, it's not about writing code. It's just like, you can solve your problem for this much money, right? Like and, yeah, so for us, kind of like depending on the market, enterprise, it's like BPM or workflow. So like, the legacy products is like, SharePoint workflow or IBM Process builder, sorry, SAP workflow or IBM process builder or Microsoft SharePoint, right? Like, like SharePoint workflows. So those are kind of like legacy BPM products. So enterprises that maybe you're aware with aware of those other products, we might talk to them in that kind of language. But for a lot of people, they just don't even know. Like, they're not aware of any kind of category for our software. So the mid market and non technical SMB market, right, like, say, professional services and stuff, which is a big chunk of our business. To them, we just make like superpower checklists. So we just manage your processes, right? Like, there's very just what it does, you know, versus some type of like, categorical abstraction that you're trying to kind of branded it with,

Ben Tossell  16:54

right? That's what it's like. Some things get categorized over time, and just have a go Yeah, that's, that's that that's this that's engineering or support or that whatever. Do you think that this wave of the non technical building? I, because I still, it's still software development? In a sense, it's just the abstraction of building it right. So do you think it'll just merge together? Or do you think it will somehow come out of its own with its own category? I know like I'm stuck in the no code Twitter, like circle where there's people talking about no code. And we definitely talked about no code and sometimes do on on plenty of our our pages and things, but it's, but what we want to do is also break out to the bigger thing, but then it's fair

Vinay - Process St  17:45

to categorize it as the movement trying to happen here. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that a lot of people are pushing for the category to happen because there's a lot of products that are category Less, and don't like that, right? Because it's a challenge to sell and market. But it's a it's a good question. For sure. I think it's got good potential in like the maker circles, right to get to get strong kind of persistent penetration. I'm curious as to if like, an HR manager in Middle America is ever going to be crapping on about, right. Like, I don't know, you know, like, Do they ever care? Right? Like that's kind of the the response that we get, right? Like, it's like, I don't care about what category you're in, like, you know, I just want you to solve my problem. Like I'm not trying to be a maker and be hips hip and be cool and like, understand like this category and make other products and shit like I have this one problem that my boss told me to solve. I need to go solve it and then I want to go back to like my normal day, right? Like I'm not it's not Not so I don't I don't know. But then you could probably make that same kind of argument for all categories, right? Like, in that, did anyone really give a shit about CRM, but like Salesforce just shoved it down their throats until everybody understood what it was and then like, now they know, right? So even if maybe that maybe, you know, a sales manager in Middle America didn't care about that didn't mean that category didn't, didn't take over. Right. Um,

Ben Tossell  19:33


Vinay - Process St  19:34

yeah, I think you can with enough with enough marketing juice, you can educate the market on the category, right? So I think if there's enough companies that are aligned around that as a term and are all pushing it for long enough, I think also, especially if there's some good enterprise penetration, I think that's where The big gap still is? Yeah.

Ben Tossell  20:05

Yeah, that's that's I

Vinay - Process St  20:06

think the big challenge for us and a lot of companies. And I think it comes to a big problem with it is that enterprises are not as open. So when you're an SMB, you can in your, you know, you can get access to every system in your organization. And like with Zapier connections, you can literally pull and push data from any single data source available in the organization. If you want to go into a big enterprise and get access to all those systems, it's like two years of smashing your head against the wall. And then maybe you don't even get access. So it becomes it makes building a lot hotter because getting access into all the systems is just way more difficult.

Ben Tossell  20:46

Yeah. Yeah. What do you think this? What would you see the sort of RPA UiPath type of company they that's, that's it. Point to those products is like

Vinay - Process St  21:03

the the ability to get into systems without needing full access. That's almost like the main purpose of that product, right? Like in that. One, like they may not even have clean API's at all, like the products that they're trying to pull and push data out of. So maybe there is even No, even if they did have permission from the IT team to get access that maybe is no even clean way to get access into that product at all. Or to they're just trying to get access to systems that like the it doesn't give them access to. And so those are the two main reasons that those products exist. And essentially, that's all they're doing. They're just designing a new type of API on like an existing environment that doesn't have a clean API connection to get into right. So they're scripting a human to make Pretend like an API would work or they're right. Like they're they're doing a basically a hack to kind of get kind of API access into a system that doesn't support it.

Ben Tossell  22:10

Like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I guess I wonder with those and all these different types of automations and workflow builders have, what is that? For me? It just seems like an obvious thing. But I don't know that that is the case. It's like, Well, okay, you can see that you can automate stuff on top of your computer with RPA stuff now, wouldn't you? Wouldn't someone else in the organization say, Well, how come Well, what can we automate further with something else and actually link these two things? And then whether

Vinay - Process St  22:43

they are saying that no one's not saying that. It's just that like, if you've got some process in, you know,

Ben Tossell  22:55


Vinay - Process St  22:56

Japan, and you've got some process at these 20 people People are doing and on Oracle right? or whatever, Citigroup, Japan get out. And like you got these things of these 20 people are doing like on Oracle all day.

Ben Tossell  23:12

And like, you could install some software

Vinay - Process St  23:15

that's like 50 grand, and you could automate like what those 20 people are doing and get rid of all those 20 people or maybe get it down to two people and so say for 50 grand you save a million bucks that's basically automation anyways, anyways pitch right? Or you could try and reinstall Oracle that cost a billion dollars and takes five years right like it's just there's no option there right like so. So you can't just like change change out Oracle in like these in these in these companies. So that's why UiPath and automation anywhere cleaning up right now because there's all these little like pockets in these giant organization's like inefficiencies, and they can't change the plumbing. There's no way because there's some sub office somewhere where like, that's controlled in New York, right? Like, this process in Japan like no one's changing global article rollout, right, like, and so that's it. There's no, there's no other option.

Ben Tossell  24:21

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, let's get off the RPA. Market. Now, what do you what do you want to speak for? For the future for process Street and where you want to take it? I think I've read there was like 450 hours, or something.

Vinay - Process St  24:38

Big Vision that we're super excited about is we're basically working towards becoming the GitHub for no code.

Ben Tossell  24:45

Actually, that is how I described maker pad on podcast before is that we've been trying to do that thing, but we do very different things where you're building the actual ability for the workflows, and we have Like people's profiles and stuff. So yeah, we've just wanted a side note say that we've, we've said the same thing thing. Yeah.

Vinay - Process St  25:07

Well, I mean, we could definitely talk about how we could collaborate on that for sure. Because if you're already making content, then we could potentially repurpose some of that content for you to get your initial exposure on it. Right, like in our in our marketplace.



Vinay - Process St  25:25

yeah, so it's the two sides, right. So it's one side is like the actual SAS product that helps you build and manage and automate. Then the other side is we have this this marketplace, right? Where we have all these processes that people can can can discover and fork off and use in their own organization. And then they can kind of customize and republish back onto the marketplace.

Ben Tossell  25:49

And so,

Vinay - Process St  25:51

the way we've been doing it right now is

Ben Tossell  25:53


Vinay - Process St  25:55

mocking marketplace, oh, I want to use that term lightly. So, so We've worked, we've worked with a lot of our customers and partners to build to build processes. But we don't really have a kind of destination yet. This is on the roadmap. But the way that it's been working right now is it's all SEO driven. So kind of like, you'll write a process. And then the way that that process is discovered is kind of through Google, it's not, we don't really have kind of like a hub that people would go and search within our own our own site. But that's kind of what we're working towards. But we do have tons of the actual processes, like already out there. And yeah, so the idea is we want to build like the kind of biggest repository for business operational knowledge, right? So if you want to know, oh, how can I like improve my recruitment process? or How can I upgrade our sales sales process, like we'll have workflows that you can come and you can just you can just plug in into your own organization. If you want to get specific Kind of knowledge. So if you want to say what is Google's recruitment process or what's like Bains m&a process, right? You can kind of like we'll have encoded kind of processes and how other organizations run their their playbooks to. So you can kind of come in and say, Okay, I want to improve our recruiting process, we want to take like an investment banking one, we want to take like a tech one we want to take like, I mean, you can kind of like just plug that in, just like you would take a kind of library and GitHub and just like plug it into your, into your product, you just kind of like take a process from another organization, just like plug it into your organization, right. And then we'll then also working and so you know, like we just we just raised our series a it was it was led by Excel, and also participation from Salesforce ventures and Atlassian. And so a big part of our strategy is also to partner with other SAS products in the ecosystem. So Excel being you know, lead investors, slack and Dropbox and a lot of other products that we W w want to integrate with. And we want to basically build co-designed processes with those products. So, Oh, you want to run a sales forecasting process. Here's a sales forecasting process that we've designed with Salesforce, that plugs directly into your Salesforce, right? So it's got the kind of will will kind of like design the template in a way. So the integration hooks are all kind of like, pre designed, right? So it's like, okay, forecasting process, Salesforce authentication, boom, you're good to go right like so now you've just kind of like deployed a sales forecasting process that's like tightly integrated into your Salesforce instance and kind of work through different the other big kind of systems of record products to build similar similar types of processes. So here's like a support escalation or support ticket response process. Click here, plug it into your Zendesk or here's like a blog post publishing process. Click here to read. It's your HubSpot. So kind of like work through the different It processes the wine with the core systems and work to build out this kind of giant library of partner optimized processes. Yeah.

Ben Tossell  29:10

Awesome. Yeah. I mean, I am listening, just mouth open in that, like, that's exactly what I believe needs to exist in this world. And it's something that I have been trying to look out for a while where, you know, if you're trying to get like, like you say, Man, if I'm thinking, Well, I'm, I've got a team now of 11 people, and we're on slack. What's a way to quickly figure out how other teams are doing like project management, like Kanban boards or something? I can Google and I can find like, 1020 articles over like, read through and let's just like fluff. It's not an way maybe. It's like, I just want here's step one, here's step number two, step number three, and like you just Just one that I didn't have the exact same process that x company has also done and runs on today. And then but and does that sort of stuff. So actually what we have on mega pad is, like, if you're trying to do that blog post publishing process, here's a tutorial on how to do that with these sets of tools. And also we have like our component library, which is, hey, you can use this shared zap, or this problem flow pieces as well. So

Vinay - Process St  30:29

that's cool too, so we can get some of our tablets in there as well.

Ben Tossell  30:33

Yeah, yeah, definitely. So how do you always like, so exactly, how's it their sheds ups? Howdy, how do you have? How's it set up where I go to cross the street and see, like, here's the process I want to implement? How do I link that up? Because with the Zapier sheds up, for example, because that's the only thing I can think of analysis. I go there and just connect, okay, anybody can do anything. was connected to them? Is it sort of a similar? similar feel?

Vinay - Process St  31:03

Yeah. So So we've processed it, you can build just like standalone processes, right? Like, you know, an epic gives built like a little table that's just inside air table, or you can build like a kind of interconnected process, right? So you can build a simple, like employee onboarding checklist, right? That's like, every time you employee comes the five things you got to do, you know, it's just assigned to this manager every time and it's simple. You're a small business. That's it, right? He doesn't have to be integrated with anything. You can add in kind of more powerful, like just internal automations into that. So you can kind of say like, if we're employing, if we're, if we're onboarding someone in engineering, then it's got like a different set of steps and maybe some different managers involved versus if we're onboarding someone in marketing, and there's like, and then maybe like engineering has a three month row onboarding timeframe, whereas marketing has a six week timeframe. So I can adjust Due Dates automatically, and I can kind of like encode in some things. But it's still inside, I can maybe add an approval or this and that, but it's really inside prostrate, right, so.


So those, the templates kind of start out that way. And so when you go and find a template,

Vinay - Process St  32:16

like if you go search like service security checklist or employee onboarding, you'll find some of our templates. And it kind of just looked like a checklist with content. So we integrate content into it as well. Right? So this is one of the things that make our templates perform so well in Google is because they're heavily content oriented. So we kind of integrate the, the, the SAP, right, the actual process document into the, into the, into the workflow. So if you're the HR manager, and you've got these three tasks for employing, for onboarding the employee, that's like give them the key card and like set up their payroll, and it's not It would tell them, the key cards are located in this drawer in this room, go and get them and then put it into this system and punch in this. And then like, that's how you give them access and type in the date. And then that's how you give a key card. And then the next the next task will be like. So click here to go to the payroll system and then put in like this information and maybe have some screenshots or something, or it could just, or it could just push the data straight into gussto, depending on what payroll system they use, and if we have like an easy and easy API to it or not, right. So so the the templates kind of start out looking like these checklists, basically, these kind of like content rich checklists, and then the hooks happen, the integrations happen in between the steps of the checklist, right? So it's kind of like maybe when you finish something or maybe after the employee fills in their information in the first step, maybe that fires or something, and those are kind of happening in the background, right.

Ben Tossell  33:56

Awesome. Yeah, that's um, Just my brains going a bit crazy with what sort of stuff you could do and try to think I'm going to spend some time and dive in and build some stuff. sales for sure. Yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna take up too much more of your time. But it's been awesome. And then if there's anything else you want to discuss, in terms of process three, no code in general or anything of the the wider community, but

Vinay - Process St  34:27

no, I think it's an exciting time. I think that, you know, when we started prostrating, I think a lot of the other products too, though, like I said, there was no no code. So I think a lot of us are quite happy that this has come about as a category and I hope it sticks.

Ben Tossell  34:43

Yeah, me too. Yeah, well, I mean, there's vessels like Excel who also look like they want to make sure that it does stick because they've invested in quite a few nocona companies over the last year or so. I guess. So. Yes. Exciting. So yeah, don't just tell the people where to Where to find you where to find versus street?


Yep, sure, you can find

Vinay - Process St  35:06

and sign up for the products. We've got a we've got a free version that you can use and play around with. Or you can find me directly on twitter at Vinay p. 10. Or on LinkedIn.

Ben Tossell  35:17

Awesome. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Thanks so much for listening. You can find us online at maker or on Twitter at make that we'd love to hear if you enjoyed this episode and what we do next


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